[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say there is definitely some crossover as far as the skills go.
[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: The main one being a deceit and deception, because magicians were professional liars.
[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_00]: What we're telling you is outside of our performance, it's a bunk, it's a lie, it's for entertainment.
[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what it is. So with, as far as my understanding of Scams and Cons, there's obviously also deceit and deception.
[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But the convincer for them is that it's real.
[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think for the scam or the con artist they are maybe taking advantage of the baser instincts of people.
[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: A big one being greed.
[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. So they're appealing to that base instinct of greed.
[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh I do this. I'm going to get this. Oh, okay, this is a great deal. I'm going to go far, but with the scammer they have to absolutely convince them that it's the real deal.
[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Magic were working in the world of make believe.
[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_04]: As John Johnson just noted, there are lots of similarities between magicians and con artists.
[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Now John is a magician, but it's his job to make us laugh and bring joy.
[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Con artist just want our money.
[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Their goals are different, but to perfect their craft they must both master the tools of misdirection,
[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_04]: convencers and a convincing pattern.
[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm Jim Grinstead and I recently attended a magic conference where I asked working magicians about the similarities and differences between magicians and con artists.
[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Today you'll hear what they have to say.
[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Now before I get started and this isn't pandering, the magic community is the nicest and friendliest professional group I've been around.
[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_04]: They are a very giving group. They happily shared their secrets with other professionals and those working up the ranks.
[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Spoiler alert, I'm not going to share any of those here.
[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_04]: It will be wrong and disrespectful.
[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_04]: But stay with me. They have a lot to say about how they work a crowd, earn their trust and send them in the wrong direction.
[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_04]: As I was exploring the idea for this episode, I saw that scammers and magicians do the same thing.
[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_04]: They need to encase their marks in a bubble where what they are saying makes absolute sense.
[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: A pattern.
[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_04]: They need to use convencers to lead their victims to take action and they need misdirection to keep the marks from realizing it's a root.
[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: The hardest thing that was for me to learn and I told us to guys who are starting working in restaurants.
[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: The hardest thing for you is going to be able to approach that table in comfortably introduce yourself to them.
[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So I look like the manager.
[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So when I go up, I'll strike up a conversation.
[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, glad you're doing it. We're all visiting from all that's great. You're from Madness, Wisconsin. That's fantastic.
[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And I get to talk them with them right?
[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And so now they're a little comfortable, but then they start to think, and do you work here?
[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say, you know, it's funny to ask that. I actually don't work here.
[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I was just sitting at the bar and I was just kind of lonely.
[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And you look like, you know, friendly people I could talk to.
[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: People that have been there before watching this unwind and they're getting a kick out of this whole thing, right?
[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01]: They're watching a show.
[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not even a magic show. It's in it's not a con show.
[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And so people are like, I said, yeah, I was just over there and I went to the bartender because I know them.
[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I work with them, right? And so they're like, well, now you can see him start to get a little uncomfortable, right?
[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And I say, no, I really do work here.
[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, but, you know, just not that often and they fired me a few weeks ago, but I still come in.
[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm doing this with people.
[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny how many people are like, oh, so sorry about that. You know, it's not that it's a con.
[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just having fun. I'm just having fun.
[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I finally, he's telling them, then when I do tell them what I do is the magician, they laugh thinking,
[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm joking about it. They're like, oh, yeah, right. That's like I've been what I've been saying already.
[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Now they're like, oh, yeah, we're supposed to believe that. I said, no, no, serious. That's what I do.
[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I was at a table one night there's a husband and wife.
[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And I started performing in this guy asked me because what do you do here? I said, well, I'm the magician.
[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, really think on a magician or I said, yeah, it's my 15th year.
[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I start performing a couple of tricks and he goes, no, really, what do you do?
[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And his wife's like, he told you he's doing magic right now. He's the magician.
[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, I don't really believe it.
[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, so you think I just kind of walk right because that's kind of what I thought you were doing.
[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: You were just kind of walking around annoying people. I said, well, I do that too and they pay me to do it.
[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And it took like five minutes for this kind of family realize that's what I did.
[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_04]: That's Dan Fleschman. He's a restaurant magician and he goes from table to table entertaining guests.
[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_04]: He must make connections quickly, read the table and decide which of his tricks work best.
[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I watched him do a presentation on how to load his coat for a show.
[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And that shouldn't come as a surprise to you, but you're sure each of their coats all the time, most of the between tricks.
[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: His moves must be smooth and quick. There's a restaurant full of guests waiting to see him perform with their table.
[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Plus, as you heard, he has to build trust just as the scammer does.
[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_04]: But for Dan, it's a different kind of trust.
[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a couple that comes in James and Katherine, they've been coming in for years. Pretty much ever since I started working there.
[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would walk up to the table and I, my name's Dan, you know, I'm the new magician. It's good to me.
[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and we'll know no thanks not tonight, Dan. Thank you.
[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So probably, but every time they would come in, I would say hi.
[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And how are you doing good? But I never asked them to want to see magic.
[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So we built this relationship over a couple years and now every time they come in now, they bring in friends to see the magic.
[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So you let them take it. You let them decide. And it's fine. I've learned that I don't like to push the envelope.
[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like to push the issue. Let that be their decision to decide.
[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, quite honestly, you're talking about, I've gained a lot of these people's trust.
[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I could easily con some of these people. I'm excited if I really wanted to.
[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_01]: If I knew the con game or I knew, I mean, I, I've, these are people I know. I probably wouldn't do it.
[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: But if I was, if I was like, did generate and that was my, my cup of tea, I could be wow.
[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: But I, I don't want to go, I want to keep my job. I don't want to go to jail either.
[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_04]: After the interview, Dan asked to look at my pen. He examined it closely and asked if I knew it could write under water.
[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I didn't. He told me it would write under words too.
[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Classic misdirection. As a side note,
[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I've done 100 episodes of scams and cons. By choice, I paid all the bills out of my pocket.
[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But now it's time to take the show to the next level and I need your help.
[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like you to become a supporter of the podcast.
[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Like a lot of shows, I'm using Patreon to make that possible.
[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Unlike other shows, your support won't buy any special episodes that others don't get to hear.
[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I value all my listeners and I don't like separating them into the halves or have knots.
[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_04]: So here's my ask. Visit patreon.com and search for scams and cons.
[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Pick a support level that's right for you and sign up.
[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_04]: If you want to know the details of what it cost to produce the podcast, read the about section where I lay it out.
[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: You can do that before picking a level of support.
[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Regardless, the podcast will always be free to hear and I hope you'll show me some love by becoming a supporter.
[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks. Now back to the show.
[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Scammers use misdirection in other ways, especially in this day of artificial intelligence.
[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I was on my way to work. My phone rang. It was my son. He was crying. He said, Dad, I was in an accident.
[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I hit another car being driven by a pregnant woman. My nose is broken. They arrested me. I'm in jail.
[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: They assigned the public defender to me. His name is Barry Goldstein.
[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You need to call him. You have to get me out of here. Help me.
[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, Brett, I'll call him and I'll call you right back. He said, you can't. They took my phone. Help me, Dad.
[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a father. I'm a lawyer. My son's in trouble. I pregnant woman was hurt. He's in jail. I'm an action mode.
[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Before I could do anything, my phone rings again. It's Barry Goldstein.
[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I just met with your son. He's hurt. He has a broken nose, but he'll be okay.
[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_03]: He hit a car being driven by a pregnant woman. She was taken to the hospital. They arrested your son because he failed the breath-wise or test at the accident scene.
[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, wait. My son would never drink and drive. He said, Brett told him that, but he had an energy drink that morning.
[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And that may have caused the failed test. He said, I should take some steps if I wanted to to bail my son out.
[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, of course, I want to do that. He said, well, give you the phone number for the courtroom courthouse and here's your son's case number.
[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_03]: You should call the courthouse and bail him out. I immediately call the courthouse. They answered correctly.
[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I tell them why I'm calling. They said, what's your son's name? They asked for the case number.
[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: They said, yes, your son's here. bail was set at $90,000. You need to post 10% $9,000 to bail him out. But there's a problem.
[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So what's the problem? The county bail bondsman was a way of family emergency and he's not available.
[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: He said, but there is a solution. You can post what they call an attorney's bond. I said, I'm an attorney.
[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: He said, yes, but you'd have an integer appearance on behalf of your son. There's a Mr. Goldstein that did that.
[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: You should perhaps call him back and try to get him to post the attorney's bond.
[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Hang up by call Mr. Goldstein back. Mr. Goldstein can you post the bond for my son?
[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you need to wire me $9,000. He said, I'm a member of a credit union. So you need to take the cash to a certain kiosk which will get the money to me.
[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm scheduled to leave for a conference in California. I'll be leaving it to the airport in two hours. So you need to move quickly.
[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I learned later that that kiosk was a Bitcoin kiosk that would convert the money to cryptocurrency.
[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I hang up all of these calls happened in two minutes. This is the first time I had a chance to think.
[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I called my daughter-in-law and suggested that she call work and tell them that my son wasn't going to make it today because he was in an accident.
[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_03]: A few minutes later, FaceTime call from my son. He's pointing to his nose because I know this is fine. I'm fine. You're a big scam.
[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_04]: That was Gary Shildhorn testifying before a congressional committee. He's an attorney.
[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_04]: The scammer used Mr. Reckon, a convencer and a pattern to get Shildhorn to act. They used fear to get him to act quickly before he had a chance to think.
[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Fortunately for Shildhorn, family members were able to think more clearly and they saved him from making a really bad decision.
[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I sat there in my car. I was physically affected by that. I was shocked and anger and relief.
[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I decided that I would try to keep Mr. Goldstein engaged in the scam while I invited law enforcement to become involved.
[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I contacted the Philadelphia Police and they said because I had not washed the money, they couldn't help me.
[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I called the local FBI office. They said, look, they were burner phones and cryptocurrency.
[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_03]: They were aware of this scam and that they were unable to bring back cryptocurrency once it was out of the country or wherever it went.
[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_03]: They were unwilling to get involved. That left me frustrated because I had been involved in consumer fraud cases in my career and I almost fell for this.
[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's another take on Mr. Reckon.
[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_05]: It's focus here. This is the part I want you to remember. Don't focus on this, which is the actual procedure that happened.
[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_05]: If you talk to people after they've seen a magic show and I've had people come up to me, they'll describe what happened but it's not really what happened.
[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_05]: It's what their brain remembers of what happened.
[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's far more miraculous than what I actually did. And part of it is because I've emphasized the parts that I wanted them to remember and to forget the procedures that might not seem on the up and up.
[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_04]: That's David Pard. He has one hell of a show. He appeared on the television program, Pented and Teller's Fools. And he fooled them. He has the trophy to prove it.
[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_04]: One of his tricks involved a story about Wild Bill Hickock.
[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Hickock died at a poker table holding two aces and two eights. It's now known as a Deadman's hand.
[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I asked him a leader about the trick and realized I'd accidentally learned how it was done.
[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_04]: David was kind enough to dance around my question but it would be wrong to include his answer here.
[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's just say that he pointed out that the eye doesn't always see what it thinks it sees.
[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_04]: We can now come back to David where he elaborates on that idea.
[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Some things you'll notice like at the end of the thing I did with a deadman's hand, a poker deal thing.
[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I recapped what I wanted them to remember later on and that was, these are the cards you gave to me.
[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I had no control over where these cards ended up is in that true because you made all the choices.
[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And they have no choice but to answer just to all of those because they're true statements.
[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_05]: But they're not quite accurate because I've done secret stuff, right?
[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's me planting in their brain the part of it I want them to remember.
[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_04]: That's also a scammer's job.
[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_04]: To plant things in the Marks Brain that helps them believe the Tateless True.
[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_04]: It's that belief that allows them to fill in the blanks and reject reality.
[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_04]: At that point they're willing to hand over their money.
[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, but Jishan still steal your money but they must also mist direct people.
[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_04]: The magician wants your attention especially if there are restaurant magician.
[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times you go to the table and a lot of the kids.
[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that they don't want to see the magic there may be shy.
[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Not like trying to fool me type of thing but they're on their iPads, they got their phones.
[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_01]: They're so many distractions now.
[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have to deal with when you're at this restaurant?
[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I go to a table if they're on their phones I tell the parents I said hey,
[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: turn those things off. If you want me to perform or you need to turn those off man.
[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Silence, I'm or whatever.
[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: The parents say come on come on watch watch the magician and I'll come.
[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: No, just let them do the thing they'll come around and that's usually what happens.
[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So is not performing for their brothers and sisters or their cousins and they see them having fun.
[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_01]: They start watching and now they come into it and I ignore them.
[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I ignore the kids.
[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't make eye contact with them because again they could look away.
[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So I let them slowly come into the act.
[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And then as I see that they're there are now all asked here hold onto this for a second.
[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not even doing a trick.
[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I have these response rabbits that I have.
[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Would you hold onto the rabbits for me?
[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah and now they got the rabbits and now they get their plane with the little rabbits.
[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not even doing any of the magic but I got them kind of coming into it.
[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I've gone to tables before because they're screaming in crying and I go over and have the little kids hold onto them
[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and they stop crying and tables are going thank you so much.
[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: How'd you do that?
[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah so there's a lot of psychology with human behavior.
[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You know or lack thereof.
[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Dan has a very smooth and fluid movement and he has a vast array of tricks to draw from.
[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_04]: But what if a magician had to open up a new bag of tricks every time they encountered a new person?
[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_04]: That person would have to be psychic or a magic term's a mentalist.
[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But addition Nick Lewin is done some mentalism in his career.
[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Mentalism requires the performer to invite the spectator to believe that the magician can read minds.
[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a psychological usually the con involved in mentalism as the words used because they will be able to get you to agree to everything with a they get eight.
[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes is an answer.
[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: He can break it down through to that and that's kind of that usage of words.
[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I had a different and he started to mental this a Mac from nowhere and he'd never done one before.
[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: In a week he put together a show went into a major show in Reno.
[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Big show, Shemard or all kinds of people are that he started to do something very interesting.
[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_02]: He became a cult buster because he was looking for TV experience.
[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: He came up there and he did this great pre show we call it.
[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: He got very simple.
[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_02]: He became a huge draw.
[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He did all those shows but they bring him on and they'd introduce him as a cult buster.
[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And he would use mentalism in order to create a cult.
[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_02]: He would start off doing a piece when he did a lecture at tour and he would do all kinds of amazing bits of mentalism.
[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And said, how many of you think that's a mate is there any explanation for that?
[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he said no, you've got the cult of me.
[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not using his name now.
[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to tell you how we break that cult down.
[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You've believed something that wasn't real.
[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And so he was a little bit of a con doing this.
[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, on that level too.
[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think he kind of hit it on the head there and he's now a pastor in another state.
[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Middle-ness about things in common with con artists.
[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I have been a fan of mentalism.
[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a magician but I've been a fan since I was a very young kid.
[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And we had some wonderful mentalists and they're gutsy people.
[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to say, they work out on a limb.
[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: The tricks are really the mentalism effects whatever you want to call them through.
[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's basically a con because you're saying you can read minds and people believe it.
[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And people do believe this stuff.
[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I know we go out, we do what we do.
[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But a mentalist is a little different.
[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've got a very good friend who's a mentalist.
[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And we've worked together many, many times.
[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I see him get carried away.
[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Because, and eventually at a certain point of mentalist,
[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_02]: very often reaches a point where they actually believe that what they're saying is true.
[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And they move from doing some kind of a thought projection or something.
[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And they move over and to give an advice.
[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_02]: They're very dangerous.
[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Which could be a problem among psychic scammers.
[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Do any of them really come to believe that what they're doing is real.
[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And that they can predict someone's future?
[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It's no longer cool to say, oh, I'm psychic.
[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: People say, yeah.
[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But they all talk about NLP and your holistic programming.
[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And they talk about these psychological, oh, oh, oh, oh,
[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: which direction your eyes face and tells of you.
[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: All that they don't mind yet that stuff.
[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very, very magical to best.
[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So they've taken that.
[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_02]: They've taken the mentalism and they put it in a psychological track so to speak.
[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to say.
[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And so nobody really says that a mentalist.
[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: People have a lot of respect.
[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: If they think that you've, you know, you can wow, just keep a tell by the way,
[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I was looking what it was and whatever, you know, then they've been calmed.
[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_04]: If you answer your phone, you know, quickly whether it's a scammer on the other end.
[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_04]: They have a script and when they begin, you recognize a script you've heard dozens of times.
[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_04]: John Johnson, whom you heard from at the beginning of this episode,
[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_04]: said that his impromptu is at May sound,
[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_04]: but Jitians also work from scripts.
[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Most phones scammers, he'll closely tutor scripts and rarely vary.
[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But Jitians on the other hand must be more flexible.
[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_00]: There's something called a set show, which is you have everything planned out in advance.
[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You have every single move and planned out in advance.
[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But then there's always the unexpected.
[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: No matter how much you plan, something can go wrong.
[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not just in magic.
[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Another rule of thumb for magicians is expect the unexpected.
[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_00]: When you're working something out, you're saying, okay, I have everything planned out.
[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I do this, but what if this goes wrong?
[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: What if I don't make the wrong move?
[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: If I pick up the wrong proper that we try and plan for all that?
[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Now there are also other shows which are more impromptu in nature.
[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_00]: The term Jazz Magic comes into play.
[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I may say I'm doing walk around magic.
[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I go up to a group of people.
[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I have an idea, oh, I'm going to do this and this and this.
[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But I also have a few things in reserve.
[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I may determine that.
[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, maybe the audience isn't right for what I had planned.
[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So I can on the fly switch something out.
[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Or let's say I go somewhere.
[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not hired to perform but there's a group of people and it's like, oh, well, John's a magician.
[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, John can you do something?
[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like if I'm unprepared, which can happen, I wouldn't have anything.
[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd have to borrow something as a cabaret, I'd have to take a car.
[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like I'm borrowing in that car and I just have to kind of make up the show on the fly.
[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And do that.
[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And that would be the Jazz Magic because I'm improvising.
[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I have skills and techniques, different slide-to-hand things and different,
[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, different plots for the card tricks that I can draw from to create the show on the fly.
[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Let me redirect you and have you focus your attention on convencers.
[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Convincers are the things that make you believe something is true.
[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_04]: It proves a trick that has just been performed or in the case of scammers.
[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_04]: It proves a story you've just told them is real.
[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Take time travel scams.
[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Someone might tell you they're from the future but if so, why aren't they rich?
[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_04]: They would have known what happened in the stock market or other events that made people wealthy.
[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_04]: But then there's the matter of going back to a time before the time travel machine was invented.
[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Details could be pesky things.
[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_04]: But magicians have a way of allowing the spectator to convince themselves.
[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's David Par again.
[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_05]: The mystery people are just like they're along for the ride.
[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Like if you tell them something's true, they're fine with it.
[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_05]: They're not going to challenge it because to them it's just like this is all about pretend.
[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's all make believe and it's fun.
[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the fun.
[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_05]: But the puzzle people, the fun for them is that trying to figure it out.
[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_05]: There's very intelligent or observant people.
[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes Hedana, a method.
[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_05]: But usually human beings tend to complicate things over complicate things.
[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And the correct solution is usually far simpler than what people come up with.
[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_05]: If the audience thinks I'm being a genuine person and I'm being sincere and being myself,
[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_05]: then they don't think I'm trying to trick them.
[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_05]: They trust me.
[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And so if I'm sincere, I come across as Gileless when really they know they're seeing a magic show.
[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_05]: So there has to be Gile involved.
[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But Nick has one more trick that he hopes you'll take him up on.
[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And if everybody could send me a thousand dollars, I'll put it in my account and it's going to go really quickly on my account.
[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll get you back two thousand dollars within three days.
[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much.
[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_04]: If you enjoy scams and cons, tell your friends and encourage them to listen.
[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And please give us a five star rating wherever you listen.
[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Your ratings really do make a difference.
[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Lastly, I'd be grateful if you'd support the show via Patreon.
[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Your support will help the podcast grow to the next level.
[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Just go to patreon.com and search for scams and cons or use the link in the show notes.
[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for listening.