[00:00:00] Tag, Herr Jauch!
[00:00:01] Herr Ulmen, was haben Sie diesmal wieder nicht verstanden?
[00:00:04] Ja, Herr Jauch, können Sie mir das mit dem E-Rezept nochmal erklären?
[00:00:07] Es ist doch nun wirklich einfach. Also, Shop-Apotheke-App öffnen, Krankenkassenkarte dranhalten...
[00:00:13] Karte dranhalten, Rezepte auswählen, bestellen, fertig...
[00:00:16] Ja, Sie wissen doch, wie es geht.
[00:00:17] Ja, aber also einfach nur dranhalten ist das... Ich dachte, meine Frau wollte mich verarschen.
[00:00:22] Diesmal ausnahmsweise nicht.
[00:00:24] Ha!
[00:00:25] E-Rezept, Shop-Apotheke. Hältst du schon dran?
[00:00:30] Niko and Sarah Galle of Rockford already have a little girl, but felt called to adopt
[00:00:36] and were thrilled in July when their adoption agency, Greater Hopes of Wyoming, connected them with a supposed teen mom in Utah
[00:00:44] who wanted to adopt out her two-year-old twins and an 18-month-old.
[00:00:49] In six weeks, the Galle's raised more than $32,000 through GoFundMe and turned it over to Greater Hopes.
[00:00:55] But in late September, days before the girls were set to arrive in Michigan, a devastating update.
[00:01:01] The Galle's wrote that a teenage girl, claiming to be a birth mom, deceived them and their adoption agency
[00:01:07] about her entire backstory, her identity, and more gut-wrenching about the young girls being her children.
[00:01:13] The Galle's told us the woman turned out to be related to the girls, but not their mom.
[00:01:19] We FaceTimed with these girls, wrote the Galle's on Facebook.
[00:01:22] It's an eerie, icky feeling knowing that these girls were rightfully somebody else's and not up for adoption.
[00:01:28] And she was most likely babysitting at the time that the videos and FaceTime took place.
[00:01:45] The birth of a child is usually a happy time, a euphoric time, a time when a family anticipates the arrival of a new member who will be loved and cared for.
[00:02:03] It doesn't always work that way.
[00:02:06] Scammers get involved and rob that family of joy, and it usually happens just before the child is born.
[00:02:14] I'm Jim Grinstead, and today on Scams and Cons, I'm going to tell you the stories of how these scams work.
[00:02:23] I'll tell you up front that this is difficult to hear.
[00:02:26] It's not so much about people losing money, but being robbed of their dreams after many months of anticipation.
[00:02:34] Today we'll cover three aspects of the scam.
[00:02:37] The first will be about adoption scams.
[00:02:40] The second about falsified birth certificates.
[00:02:43] And lastly, forced adoptions.
[00:02:47] So we begin.
[00:02:49] What you heard earlier was the story of a West Michigan couple who planned to adopt a girl from Utah.
[00:02:56] WOOD said that when the birthday came, they made preparations to pick up the biological mother at the airport.
[00:03:02] The scam was exposed, according to the galleys, when the woman and children could not make the trip to Michigan from Utah
[00:03:09] because the so-called birth mom could not produce her ID.
[00:03:13] The galleys noted online that all the money that has been donated has already been paid to the agency and will be used for our future adoption.
[00:03:21] The birth mother did not ask for or receive money.
[00:03:25] It was all held by the agency.
[00:03:28] Here's Deb Gustin, a New Jersey-based adoption attorney.
[00:03:32] If you've been doing this as long as I have, every once in a while you see someone who is what we would call an emotional scammer.
[00:03:38] They're looking for attention more than money.
[00:03:40] We now go from a sad story to a tragic one.
[00:03:49] A woman in Houston cheated a couple out of $10,000.
[00:03:53] And when the couple tried to get answers, they found the woman wasn't even pregnant.
[00:03:59] Breanne Paquin and her husband wanted to adopt and went on social media in hopes of finding someone willing to give up her baby.
[00:04:06] The woman they found said she was five months pregnant.
[00:04:10] And the couple hired a Houston attorney to shepherd the process.
[00:04:19] One of the first things they did was to ask for a photo ID.
[00:04:23] When time came, they began the journey from Ohio to Houston, hoping to meet their new child.
[00:04:30] Fox 26 in Houston has more.
[00:04:33] Along the way, she sent the Paquins pictures and ultrasound videos updating them on the baby.
[00:04:38] We talked about what the future looked like for all of us and wanted to have an open adoption.
[00:04:43] She was still involved with the baby's life.
[00:04:46] She also sent them medical bills, totaling more than $9,000, which they reimbursed her for.
[00:04:52] There was no convincing me or my husband that this was anything but legitimate.
[00:04:57] Fast forward to Christmas Day.
[00:04:59] The woman told them she was set to be induced early in the week.
[00:05:02] So they booked flights, rented a car and an Airbnb and made their way to Houston.
[00:05:07] Car seat in hand.
[00:05:08] Good morning.
[00:05:09] It is induction day.
[00:05:10] You guys' mom's being induced tonight at 8 p.m. Central Time.
[00:05:13] So prayers, please.
[00:05:15] But the day the woman was supposed to be induced, she told the Paquins her mom had to have open
[00:05:20] heart surgery and then days went by and there was still no date set for when the baby would
[00:05:24] be born.
[00:05:25] That's when the Paquins lawyer set them down and told them he believed they'd been scammed.
[00:05:29] The lawyer and my husband actually went out to one of her last known addresses, which
[00:05:37] happened to be family members at first.
[00:05:39] And they spoke with her family.
[00:05:41] People had, they said they did not think she was pregnant at all.
[00:05:45] They said that was a lie.
[00:05:47] Our mom was completely fine.
[00:05:49] Was not in the hospital.
[00:05:51] Nothing has changed.
[00:05:52] We left an empty house and we're coming home to an empty house.
[00:05:57] The Peterson Kaiser Family Foundation says giving birth can cost $18,865 on average, including
[00:06:11] pregnancy, free and postpartum care.
[00:06:15] Health insurance can cover most of that.
[00:06:18] But if the birth mother doesn't have insurance, those costs, plus agency fees, transportation
[00:06:24] and more, fall to the adopting family.
[00:06:29] Lifetime adoption, an accredited faith-based agency in Florida, says it's not unusual for
[00:06:35] potential parents to get a call in the middle of the night telling them a baby is available
[00:06:40] and the birth mother waited for the last minute to decide.
[00:06:45] The agency says potential parents should verify her situation, obtaining the name of the hospital
[00:06:51] and the doctor.
[00:06:53] A call to the nurse's station in the maternity ward could be worthwhile.
[00:06:57] Lastly, from KDKA in Pittsburgh, a couple was notified that a baby would be available.
[00:07:03] They had showers and even showed off a sonogram on social media.
[00:07:08] Then came the call.
[00:07:09] I got a call from her mother crying to me on the phone stating that Casey had the baby
[00:07:16] but the baby had died at the hospital.
[00:07:19] The poor father unable to make it to the hospital to see his dead son.
[00:07:23] Her whole story of what happened like at the hospital and said that by the time Jeff got
[00:07:28] there, she was already discharged.
[00:07:30] Now, when you lose a baby, that first off does not happen.
[00:07:34] Cindy DeLossia knew something was up.
[00:07:36] While this was all happening, the couple appealed on GoFundMe for money to help bury little
[00:07:41] Easton Walt Lang.
[00:07:42] Jeffrey Lang's Facebook page had a sad entry from a brokenhearted father.
[00:07:46] They held a memorial service and everything afterwards.
[00:07:50] Still suspicious, Cindy DeLossia made a phone call.
[00:07:53] And I talked to the funeral home and I verified that that baby never existed.
[00:07:57] That was the last straw for a now fully skeptical former friend.
[00:08:01] I couldn't go and sit there and watch everybody cry and everything over something that I knew
[00:08:07] was not real.
[00:08:08] DeLossia called the state police and the Lang's tragic tale fell to pieces.
[00:08:13] But what about the adorable picture?
[00:08:14] This was fake.
[00:08:16] It was a fake baby.
[00:08:27] A birth certificate is considered a gateway document.
[00:08:30] It's the piece of paper you use to get all the other important papers in your life.
[00:08:35] A social security card, a passport, and in some places, a driver's license.
[00:08:40] It can also be used to steal government benefits.
[00:08:43] They are also the perfect way to steal someone's identity.
[00:08:47] An original birth certificate can easily be altered to create a new false identity for you
[00:08:53] or a child.
[00:08:54] And if you get caught, there isn't much to fear.
[00:08:59] Birth certificate fraud is addressed in both federal and state laws.
[00:09:02] It's considered a felony in only 23 states.
[00:09:06] In 28 states, it remains classified as a misdemeanor.
[00:09:10] This classification may contribute to the low prosecution rates.
[00:09:14] In felony cases, the laws are generally applied to those creating false identities.
[00:09:20] Birth certificates are particularly valuable because they don't include a photo.
[00:09:25] It would be useless to use a photo of the baby, and there's no way to know how the person will look as an adult.
[00:09:31] 12 News Arizona and Phoenix tells us about problems there.
[00:09:36] Standing in front of a forged birth certificate, Attorney General Chris Mays,
[00:09:40] how five defendants allegedly took advantage of the state's ESA program to steal more than $600,000 of taxpayer money.
[00:09:47] They created children that didn't exist and gave them fake disability diagnoses.
[00:09:56] Three of the five defendants were insiders, employees of the Department of Ed.
[00:09:59] They are accused of forgery, fraud, and theft, allegedly creating 17 disability ESA accounts,
[00:10:04] including five ghost students that didn't even exist.
[00:10:08] Mays alleges the ESA program that has ballooned since its expansion in 2022 is uniquely vulnerable.
[00:10:15] And the lack of controls, regulation, and appropriate oversight make the voucher ESA program a target for fraudsters.
[00:10:29] I have no tolerance for fraudulent activity.
[00:10:32] State Superintendent Tom Horn pushing back, saying his office is flagging cases of fraud.
[00:10:37] Horn's ESA program director says they do have tools to detect forged birth certificates.
[00:10:43] A lot of things are being bought that you would not associate with educational activities.
[00:10:47] Let's put it that way.
[00:10:48] ESA accounts allow parents to send their children to state-approved schools using state-approved money.
[00:10:55] The money can also be used to fund higher education.
[00:10:58] Fake birth certificates can be used to steal government benefits and commit child identity theft.
[00:11:04] And of course, none of this is possible without a birth certificate.
[00:11:08] Even when a legal attempt is made to alter a birth certificate so the real father's name appears,
[00:11:14] state law can get in the way.
[00:11:16] It happened in Oklahoma, and the impediment was the state's Uniform Parentage Act.
[00:11:22] It provides a structure for creating necessary forms.
[00:11:25] The day I held my daughter in my arms, I cried.
[00:11:28] I said, hey, this is my daughter.
[00:11:30] The hospital put it on the temporary birth certificate.
[00:11:33] And then the state later said, no, it's not.
[00:11:35] It's this man's.
[00:11:36] Donnell says there's never been any question.
[00:11:39] He is Lillian's father.
[00:11:41] But he was shocked to learn the state's vital records department wouldn't acknowledge it on her birth certificate.
[00:11:46] And in today's world, there are a lot of different types of relationships that could produce a child.
[00:11:53] If I'm saying I'm separated from my legal husband, but this guy here in the hospital is the father of the baby, I should be able to put that.
[00:12:03] Megan was married to someone else when Lillian was born.
[00:12:07] Under state law, he was considered the dad.
[00:12:09] Do I lie on a form saying I'm not married, or do I tell the truth and have to put my now ex-husband's name?
[00:12:16] This allowed my egg to get what he wanted in the divorce because he had legal rights over my daughter.
[00:12:24] While fake certificates are uncommon in the U.S., they are more of a problem in other countries.
[00:12:29] The Shanghai Daily said a hospital in South China sold fake birth certificates to facilitate human trafficking.
[00:12:38] There had been an earlier revelation of a hospital in central China forging birth certificates.
[00:12:44] A whistleblower released a video alleging that a hospital colluded with intermediaries to sell fake birth certificates for $16,475 each,
[00:12:54] including a complete set of authentic hospitalization and childbirth records.
[00:13:00] He claimed that when the hospital has pregnant women who are about to give birth,
[00:13:04] they will find buyers and have them disguise themselves as expectant mothers to register for prenatal care at a hospital.
[00:13:12] Later, these real expectant mothers will use the information of the buyers to deliver their babies at the hospital.
[00:13:18] After giving birth, the buyers can use the real identities to obtain a medical certificate of birth at the hospital.
[00:13:27] The Irish Examiner said Facebook groups based in the U.K.
[00:13:31] are offering to arrange private adoptions and forged documents to Irish families for a fee of about $2,400.
[00:13:39] The groups are claiming they can act as the facilitator between prospective adopters
[00:13:43] and single women who are not in a position to look after their babies.
[00:13:47] The proposed adoption would mimic some of the private adoptions illegally carried out in Ireland up until the 1970s.
[00:13:55] Up to 20,000 false registrations of Irish babies here left them with no trace of their biological history
[00:14:02] and in some cases no idea they were even adopted.
[00:14:06] Similar problems happen elsewhere in the world.
[00:14:10] Bambantarlac Mayor Alice Goh was already 19 years old when her birth was registered,
[00:14:15] according to the Philippine Statistics Authority or PSA.
[00:14:19] Goh has repeatedly said she does not know why it took so long,
[00:14:22] a statement that some senators found suspicious.
[00:14:25] According to the PSA, however, late registration of birth really happens.
[00:14:30] From 2013 to 2022, the annual average delayed birth registration was more than 972,000.
[00:14:39] Of the 111 million Filipinos in 2020, 3.7 million did not have birth certificates or were not registered.
[00:14:46] So what happens when you discover your birth certificate is a lie?
[00:14:51] Victoria Tappankoff tells that in a Canadian TED Talk.
[00:14:55] If this apple gave me food poisoning, I would be able to track where it came from, who transported it, and when.
[00:15:03] If I got sick due to a genetic predisposition, however, I would have no legal way to find out half of my medical history.
[00:15:09] Why does an apple have more information about its history than I do?
[00:15:13] Because I was made with anonymous donor sperm.
[00:15:16] Under current Canadian legislation, because my parents used an anonymous sperm donor,
[00:15:21] I do not have the right to know half of my personal, health, and family history.
[00:15:25] These are my parents. They're pretty normal.
[00:15:28] Like one in six Canadian couples, they experienced infertility.
[00:15:32] But my parents still wanted to have kids, so they decided to use a sperm donor.
[00:15:36] In 1999, they were presented with these options.
[00:15:40] All were anonymous sperm donors.
[00:15:42] With such little information, my mom asked the lab tech which donor was the nicest person.
[00:15:47] Through some online detective work, I discovered that my biological father lived just 30 minutes away from me most of my life.
[00:15:54] He attended the same university at the same time as both of my parents, and I was attending it as well.
[00:16:01] My mom went to school with his cousin.
[00:16:04] And worst of all, my fear of dating a relative was not too far-fetched when I found out that he had over 50 first cousins.
[00:16:11] I wanted to contact him, but I was scared.
[00:16:14] Victoria went on to explain how the problem prevents children from finding out who their real parents are,
[00:16:20] and that impacts medical decisions.
[00:16:23] In some cases, children die from illnesses that could have been prevented or cured.
[00:16:28] All of which leads us to one question.
[00:16:31] And for the answer, we went to countyoffice.org.
[00:16:34] Your birth certificate is a legal document that proves your identity and citizenship, but who owns it?
[00:16:40] The answer is simple. You do.
[00:16:42] Your birth certificate is issued by the government of the state where you were born.
[00:16:46] It contains important information, such as your full name, date of birth, place of birth, and your parents' names.
[00:16:53] While the government issues the birth certificate, it belongs to you, and you have the right to obtain a copy of it.
[00:16:59] You can use it as proof of identity when applying for a passport, driver's license, or other important documents.
[00:17:06] It's important to keep your birth certificate in a safe place, as it can be used for identity theft.
[00:17:16] Pack your body bags.
[00:17:18] We're going on a slaycation.
[00:17:20] Jim, what's a slaycation?
[00:17:21] A slaycation is a murder or mysterious death that happens while you're on vacation.
[00:17:26] If you like to mix humor with horror and travel,
[00:17:29] join me, Kim Davis.
[00:17:31] And me, Adam Tex Davis.
[00:17:32] And me, Cherry Colbert.
[00:17:34] As we look at the craziest slaycations that will have you asking what the F is wrong with people,
[00:17:40] you can find Slaycation on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:17:44] Just remember, getting away can be murder.
[00:17:52] We now turn to the topic of forced adoptions.
[00:17:56] Situations where a mother is separated from her baby and given up for adoption without her consent.
[00:18:01] My story was I was a country girl.
[00:18:04] I got pregnant.
[00:18:06] I had a child at 17.
[00:18:08] I was put in Elam, which was the Salvation Army home for unmarried mothers.
[00:18:14] The treatment there is another story.
[00:18:17] I lost my child to adoption and I've got her back now with two grandchildren.
[00:18:23] And my daughter and her children were here today with me.
[00:18:26] We heard some terrible stories from Lara Giddings about what happened at childbirth with some mothers.
[00:18:34] Some of the officials or whoever was there put pillows over the faces of some mothers
[00:18:38] so that they couldn't see their children.
[00:18:40] What happened to you at the point of childbirth?
[00:18:44] I was tied to a bed.
[00:18:47] I had back pains.
[00:18:48] I was told to stop whinging and take a disperine.
[00:18:51] When the time got closer, I was tied to a bed.
[00:18:54] I was left there.
[00:18:55] I had my child by myself.
[00:18:58] My daughter was going over the edge of the bed when someone walked in with a bundle of towels
[00:19:03] and caught her in mid-air.
[00:19:05] And when you say you were tied to the bed, at what stage was that?
[00:19:09] Was that actually before the childbirth?
[00:19:12] Oh, yes, yes, yes.
[00:19:14] This story comes from Canada where the law was changed to protect mothers.
[00:19:19] I started searching for her before she turned 18, a couple of weeks before she was 18.
[00:19:24] She's 44 now.
[00:19:26] It was a long battle.
[00:19:28] It was a long battle because they were just starting to change the laws so that you could
[00:19:32] search.
[00:19:33] And it was worth it, of course.
[00:19:36] And it wasn't all good news.
[00:19:38] We had some big, big bumps.
[00:19:41] But yes, she's in our life now.
[00:19:43] And it's really, really good.
[00:19:45] The biggest problem was when you had the second baby.
[00:19:47] You were too frightened to leave it or take your eyes off it because you were frightened
[00:19:51] that someone was going to whisk him away and you were never going to see him like the first.
[00:19:56] Parents got gooey-gooey over the second child and nobody could have cared less over the first one.
[00:20:00] And I think that was probably the biggest impact on me.
[00:20:03] A woman in Baltimore was a victim of forced adoption.
[00:20:06] And when she became an adult, she went on a quest to find her real parents.
[00:20:11] She told WBAL her story.
[00:20:14] Kara Miranda was taken from her mother when she was three months old.
[00:20:17] They were living in Chile and there were many forced adoptions between 1973 and 1990.
[00:20:24] Now an agency is working to reunite the children and their mothers.
[00:20:29] There's coercive adoptions.
[00:20:31] There's forced adoptions.
[00:20:33] And then there's just stealing of children.
[00:20:36] Now the lawyer and retired Marine is working with the nonprofit to help reunite more families
[00:20:41] and hold those accountable for decades of counterfeit adoptions.
[00:20:46] So in a few weeks, I'll be returning to Chile, to Santiago, to work with Ciro Colombara and his firm.
[00:20:51] And we're going to be filing our case, starting to look for justice in this.
[00:20:55] And for the first time, we're going to have our own voice in seeking justice.
[00:21:01] Lastly, in Australia, there was the St. Mary's Home for Children.
[00:21:06] It operated from 1953 to the early 1980s as a home for unwed mothers.
[00:21:13] In 2012, Prime Minister Julia Gillard read a national apology in federal parliament.
[00:21:20] She outlined the fact that mothers were given false assurances by authorities and were, quote,
[00:21:26] forced to endure the coercion and brutality of practices that were unethical, dishonest,
[00:21:33] and in many cases illegal.
[00:21:36] Eventually, the home was torn down and a garden planted in its place.
[00:21:40] It was a gathering spot for the 150,000 mothers who passed through the home.
[00:21:46] The Australian Broadcasting Company talked with two of the mothers.
[00:21:51] My story is I'm a mum who lost her baby to forced adoption.
[00:21:56] I won't forget, I won't forgive, and I can't accept the fact that they took my baby
[00:22:01] and I never saw him grow up.
[00:22:04] In December of 1969, I got a job as a governess on a property in western Queensland.
[00:22:11] I was a victim of pack rape, and I wrote to my mum, told her the situation,
[00:22:21] and she said, you can't come home.
[00:22:26] The people I was working for spoke to the Bush Brothers.
[00:22:30] They're the Anglican Travelling Ministers, and they found me the place at St Mary's.
[00:22:36] In 1965, I found myself pregnant and became engaged because I was pregnant,
[00:22:42] and then was jilted three weeks before my wedding.
[00:22:44] So with that, I was sent to St Mary's home at Toowong and stayed there until the birth of my son.
[00:22:52] The garden means somewhere to go and reflect on what's happened,
[00:22:57] but it's also a bit of a closure with the home.
[00:23:02] That's part of the story that we left behind.
[00:23:04] It still impacts on us today.
[00:23:07] You might hear a song, or you might see something on the TV,
[00:23:11] and it takes you back to that instant.
[00:23:14] The way I have coped with life from the loss of my son
[00:23:18] is I have separated the younger person that was me,
[00:23:23] and her suffering, she never recovered from that.
[00:23:27] So her suffering, I sort of have divided my life into two pieces.
[00:23:32] I'm happily married.
[00:23:34] I have two beautiful daughters, and that life is all I could want it to be.
[00:23:39] But when our lives mix, then I'm faced with all the things that she lost.
[00:23:45] She lost everything.
[00:23:53] I went to the hospital, had him at about 2.30 in the morning.
[00:23:56] I vaguely remember the clock in front of my face,
[00:24:00] and they just took him straight away.
[00:24:02] I didn't see him.
[00:24:03] They just took him straight out of the ward.
[00:24:06] I asked to see him, and I refused.
[00:24:09] I wouldn't have known that I had a son,
[00:24:11] except somebody came back and said that you had a son,
[00:24:14] a long skinny streak like yourself,
[00:24:16] crop of black hair and the same crooked little fingers.
[00:24:19] So for a long time afterwards, I was looking for a baby with crooked fingers.
[00:24:22] I was in the hospital for 10 days.
[00:24:26] I refused to sign the consent form.
[00:24:29] I kept asking to see him.
[00:24:31] I was told, don't bother looking for him.
[00:24:33] You'll never find him.
[00:24:35] And they told me the only way to get out of here is to sign the consent form.
[00:24:38] I have no medical records, but I feel that I was drugged
[00:24:44] because I don't remember his birth or the next five days.
[00:24:48] I just feel I was kept in a sedated state
[00:24:50] so that I wouldn't cause any complications for them.
[00:24:53] Once I'd signed the consent form with no guardian, no parent there,
[00:24:58] I was allowed to go down and see him through a glass window.
[00:25:01] And when I asked could I nurse him, they said,
[00:25:04] no, you're too upset.
[00:25:04] Go back to your room.
[00:25:06] So that was my one memory.
[00:25:07] I can still see his face today.
[00:25:09] The garden is a part of a journey.
[00:25:12] The end of the journey will be when I get my name on a birth or death certificate
[00:25:16] and they'll have a leaf that has my name and my son's birth name on it.
[00:25:21] And to me, that's the first time in 53 years I've seen our names link together.
[00:25:27] So no more secrecy and no more lies.
[00:25:30] That little leaf means the world to me.
[00:25:34] 1993, we met for the first time and I met him at the airport.
[00:25:39] And in my mind, I'm expecting the baby that I'd never seen.
[00:25:43] And out walks a man in front of me.
[00:25:45] It's like really hard to accept mentally that transition from baby to man.
[00:25:52] And all I wanted to do was cling up onto him and not let him go.
[00:25:57] So yes, we've worked hard for the relationship that we have today.
[00:26:01] We've lived through it.
[00:26:03] We look after each other.
[00:26:04] Each other's back.
[00:26:05] And we fight together for everything that's still required.
[00:26:08] The damage that they did to mothers and children and the extended families is ongoing.
[00:26:13] It's not an incident that happened once and then you walked away from it unscathed.
[00:26:18] It's a lifetime sentence.
[00:26:26] If you enjoy the podcast, please help us out by telling your friends and encouraging them to listen.
[00:26:33] Scams and Cons is available wherever podcasts are found and at scamsandcons.com.
[00:26:39] You can also follow us on Facebook and Instagram.
[00:26:43] Just search for Scams and Cons.
[00:26:46] Lastly, if you could head over to Spotify and leave us a five-star rating, it would be appreciated.
[00:26:51] Your ratings really do make a difference.
[00:26:54] Thanks for listening.
[00:27:03] Scams and Cons is part of the Killer Podcast Network.